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Thinking about F95 reviews

Started by Goldo, Nov 18, 2024, 08:34 AM

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Deimos96

Quote from: Smaug on Jan 23, 2025, 08:54 PMBut still, BK is 22# in management category out of 840 submissions, that not exactly bad I think (beats out Sengoku Rance and Portals Of Phereon).

My only suggestion (and that is more of a matter of design preference) would be to lean into what Trait King started and make it way more Gacha. Make a bigger difference between between a bad pull and a super rare one and people would eat it up.

How did you sort the management tag in f95? Actually, I'm surprised it's that low. I think BK should at least be top 10 lol. Maybe it's because some popular games where only minor aspects of the game has management but gets the management tag anyway eats up the rankings? I'm definitely biased though since I don't rly like 3d/VN type of games which f95 has a lot of.

I agree, maybe at some point TK could be implemented or retooled into vanilla?


vadi92

#61
How did you sort the management tag in f95?
Quote from: Deimos96 on Jan 24, 2025, 11:04 AMHow did you sort the management tag in f95?

Click on lastest update. And there you see a filter option. There you can filter out everything you want even the ratings.

Bk it's the 11# game in the ratings if you choose this in the filter:
1. games
2. sortings: stars
3. tags: management
4. prefix engine: Renpy

Edit: If you filter out the VN in prefix: Others then it's the 9#

GoldoTopic starter

Quote from: Smaug on Jan 23, 2025, 08:54 PMMy only suggestion (and that is more of a matter of design preference) would be to lean into what Trait King started and make it way more Gacha. Make a bigger difference between between a bad pull and a super rare one and people would eat it up.

I'm all for it, I just have to figure out how it would impact balance. In my experience game balance is the hardest thing to get right, and most of the time it's just educated guesswork so it's a lot of back and forth. So I'm always cautious about impacting it in a big way, even though the current state is far from perfect (see all the complaints about taxes, which were introduced as a way to make things more balanced...).
Maker of BK. Looking for the latest patch for BK 0.2? The link doesn't change, so bookmark it!

Jman

#63
Well, implementing 'bad' and 'good' 'gacha pulls' beyond the already existing 'gold'/'positive' dichotomy will by definition be unbalanced, since it necessitates that some traits are less useful than others. Trait King generally tries to keep them roughly similar withing the 'gold', 'positive', 'negative' and 'improved negative' categories, even if the overall power level is greater and not all traits apply to all circumstances. So, yeah, I don't know if it's necessarily a good idea if balance is your concern.

And this also leads to 'strong' traits (the good 'pulls'), which I think Goldo didn't like at least a while ago?

I mean, I'm all for really strong traits and perks, but I'm me. ;D
And with strange aeons even death may die...

GoldoTopic starter

Quote from: Jman on Jan 27, 2025, 08:52 AMWell, implementing 'bad' and 'good' 'gacha pulls' beyond the already existing 'gold'/'positive' dichotomy will by definition be unbalanced, since it necessitates that some traits are less useful than others. Trait King generally tries to keep them roughly similar withing the 'gold', 'positive', 'negative' and 'improved negative' categories, even if the overall power level is greater and not all traits apply to all circumstances. So, yeah, I don't know if it's necessarily a good idea if balance is your concern.

And this also leads to 'strong' traits (the good 'pulls'), which I think Goldo didn't like at least a while ago?

I mean, I'm all for really strong traits and perks, but I'm me. ;D

Leaning in that direction would mean unlocking this kind of traits towards the mid to end game, when customization through training perks etc. would be less of a concern. We could also imagine girls that have stronger potential rather than stronger inborn traits: for instance, higher skill cap or all effects from certain perk trees are strongly improved. Still, it encourages certain builds but I guess if it comes late-game I would mind it less.

Another thing that could be done would be to make it a specific game mode, gatcha-mode or something, and inform the player that game balance flies out of the window when activating it.
Maker of BK. Looking for the latest patch for BK 0.2? The link doesn't change, so bookmark it!

Jman

If you have to become a whale in order to get access to the real gacha with the actual rewards, it's not much of a gacha, now is it? :)

Also, I'm not a great fan of adding a zillion low-impact perks/traits, training/potential/whatnot, instead of having a smaller number of strong ones.
And with strange aeons even death may die...

Toshiro

Hmm in terms of gacha/trait randomness I like how trait king/HeadHunter mods works. You can sometimes find a girl with 3 gold traits (Ultra rare.  Usually I find them in the city or via HeadHunter mod).  As for bad pulls you can find girls with 1 good trait and 2 bad ones or even 3 bad ones.  Perhaps having an option for new game+ to make trait distribution during girl generation more random like that.  Call it "I'm feeling Lucky" or "Girl Gacha" or something like that.

UR = 3 gold traits
SSR = 2 gold one green
SR= 1 gold two green
R = 1 gold one green one red
U = 2-3 green
C = 2 green 1 red
Miss = 1 green 2 red
Super Miss = 3 red

If we really want gacha in game, maybe a random kidnap system?  You pay a merc/kidnapper a set amount of gold (lets say 500+ gold for a C rank girl) and you randomly get a girl after a day or two.  Higher gold costs means better odds.  Possibly implemented during or after the Kunoichi plot-line.

Jman

Uh, how are you even getting a girl with 3 gold traits? Trait King should be maxing out at 2 gold and 3 positive, and I put in quite some effort to disable more than 2 gold trait requests from the HH. The only way past this I can see is if someone's _BK.ini specifically gives out a particular gold trait. Maybe.



Otherwise, doing the gacha via number of traits sounds good. And the 'random kidnap' seems a lot like neroner's 'girl lootboxes' idea from before.
And with strange aeons even death may die...

Toshiro

@Jman  Looking at the code of trait king (slightly guessing since I dunno how it manages to change the girl creation), an original girl will get +1 gold traits.  So if she is created as a 2 gold + 1 green will mean they get 3 gold traits and the green will get bumped off since girls are created with only 3 traits.  I mean it is super rare and I only see it in like 1 in 5 games.  I think the only reason why I see it at all is I actively try to get original girls whenever possible.

Jman

#69
Oh, yeah, forgot about that. :-* I'm used to the Bonanza version where there are separate distributions for originals and non-originals that both still max at 2 gold.

I guess it's an incentive to look for girls yourself instead of going to the HH 100% of the time.
And with strange aeons even death may die...