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[Feedback] Gameplay and Balance discussion

Started by Goldo, May 18, 2022, 02:32 PM

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GMWinters

That's fair.

Also, I'm guessing it would probably break the visually appealing staircase effect, but assuming that training for something and working it have the same effects, do you have a version of this that includes Naked, Bisexual, and Group? (Or does Bisexual/Group just run with whatever other act the customer selects?)

GoldoTopic starter

Quote from: GMWinters on Sep 27, 2023, 02:12 PMThat's fair.

Also, I'm guessing it would probably break the visually appealing staircase effect, but assuming that training for something and working it have the same effects, do you have a version of this that includes Naked, Bisexual, and Group? (Or does Bisexual/Group just run with whatever other act the customer selects?)

Yes, bisexual and group run with the main act, while naked is not used as a specific act during night events but instead provides a 5% bonus to tips.
Maker of BK. Looking for the latest patch for BK 0.2? The link doesn't change, so bookmark it!

advancedas

Hi,

Been playing Brothel King for a while. For my play style I don't necessarily like the mechanic of limiting the girls love and fear stats based on rank.

I feel like I am sometimes pushed to advance to the next chapter to be able to increase the love/fear stats further.

Is there a way to remove this limitation, so I could max these stats on previous chapters?

Also is there a way to "train" positive fixation. So the girl would acquire a new positive fixation (the same way you can remove a negative fixation).

GoldoTopic starter

Quote from: advancedas on Oct 01, 2023, 09:20 AMHi,

Been playing Brothel King for a while. For my play style I don't necessarily like the mechanic of limiting the girls love and fear stats based on rank.

I feel like I am sometimes pushed to advance to the next chapter to be able to increase the love/fear stats further.

Is there a way to remove this limitation, so I could max these stats on previous chapters?

Well, it's a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't, as previously there was no limit by chapter and it was requested to pace the progression.

You can disable it if you're ready to dig in the code.

Open BKgirlclass.rpy, look around lines 4109 and 4155 for the definitions of the change_love and change_fear methods.

Add the following line of code at the beginning or the function, taking care to use the same indentation as the code below it:
min_cap = max_cap = None
Your function should look like this after you're done:
def change_love(self, amount, min_cap = None, max_cap = None, silent=False): # Cap is the limit above which love won't go with this action (used for free girls only)

            min_cap = max_cap = None

            if self in game.free_girls:
                [...]

Do the same for change_fear.


QuoteAlso is there a way to "train" positive fixation. So the girl would acquire a new positive fixation (the same way you can remove a negative fixation).

No, there isn't, I suppose it could be done with a mod. It needs to be balanced so that you can't just bombard all your girls with new fixations until they love everything. I guess we could introduce a new farm power that gives positive fixations, the sanity mechanic would prevent overuse.
Maker of BK. Looking for the latest patch for BK 0.2? The link doesn't change, so bookmark it!

GMWinters

Quote from: Goldo on Oct 11, 2023, 04:19 PMNo, there isn't, I suppose it could be done with a mod. It needs to be balanced so that you can't just bombard all your girls with new fixations until they love everything. I guess we could introduce a new farm power that gives positive fixations, the sanity mechanic would prevent overuse.

It could even be two separate powers if you want to increase the variety of the deck:

The first could be modeled after the currently existing spell that swaps out one negative trait for another with the supercharged version giving you some control over what you get. So the net total fixations remains the same and the sanity cost can be mild?

And the second one could then add a net new fixation and have a commensurately higher sanity cost?

Yasaki74

@Goldo
I think the bank should be accessible early game making the bank more useful and more mechanics could be add in
like having interest, lesser tax and tax is auto pay by the amount of money to the bank
- taxing buildings: the whore room should be built, it doesn't make sense that's already there since most girls in early game won't do whoring
- the more interest you have the less you have to pay for the rooms you have to build
- unlock level cap for mc

GoldoTopic starter

#66
Quote from: Yasaki74 on Oct 17, 2023, 05:01 PM- taxing buildings: the whore room should be built, it doesn't make sense that's already there since most girls in early game won't do whoring

On this particular point: There is no whore room, the girls are actually using their bedrooms for whoring (Edit: And the room quality affects customers, too).
Maker of BK. Looking for the latest patch for BK 0.2? The link doesn't change, so bookmark it!

Yasaki74

#67
Quote from: Goldo on Nov 14, 2023, 11:39 AM
Quote from: Yasaki74 on Oct 17, 2023, 05:01 PM- taxing buildings: the whore room should be built, it doesn't make sense that's already there since most girls in early game won't do whoring

On this particular point: There is no whore room, the girls are actually using their bedrooms for whoring.

I still think there should a room built for whoring like the how's the room quality?
and while they are slaves the rooms should made in 2 part
1 for whoring and 1 for storing slaves

*1st part slave storing
- it make sense where you can call the girls to your master bedroom, when every girl sleep on the same beds or bunk beds
- you can also make the girls sleeps on the floor when you have no beds left which eliminates the need for buy more rooms for slaves to stay though it could lead to health problems(just a quality of life changes)
- you can skip night trainings when they sleep on your bed and you can make them wake you up as an alarm clock for more events

*2nd part for whoring
- the part for whoring could make the customer able to choose which room to whore, how good is the room quality for whoring and does the girls in that room has any sex toys they could use or they could borrow the girls sex toys
- the clothes that you buy could affect how the customers like the girl(basically I'm saying that the items in the game like clothing, sex toys, panties, weapons could change how the whoring room works)
+ weapon for self-defense even though there's only 1 way of doing the security events I think there should  more security events occur like in the whoring room
+ clothing, panties are their for attractiveness, could affect how the customers want the girls clothing should be(though this one should be optional)
+ sex toys for improving fetishes, sex types and also affect how customers pay too(for more options)

Edit:
Allow the mc to be able to train a girl more than once

turbotator

Been playing this game on and off these past few months and was finally able to beat it on Bk difficulty, have some thoughts:

1. Really looking forward to events/story on the last three stages, I felt that after clearing the 3rd area there wasn't much impeding me from continuously scaling up.

2. This maybe the fact that I only played wizard, but I wasn't compelled at all to use the farm or "go to class" system, as I had food and clothing to satisfy stat needs.

3. I like the random events that occur (seemly randomly) when you approach certain areas (lake or waterfront), start or end a day. Hope to see more variance added to them.

Thanks for the great game Goldo!

Alpha_and_omega

Some feedback from my side after a 32 x-rank-girls-run on Brothel King difficulty (lvl 25 Trader, "kind" owner, year-2-month-10, BK0.3) :

Concerning perks, I gave :
all my 32 girls slut (for work&whore and energy)
all my 32 girls courtesan (for short-rest and more bi)
28 girls player (1 gold for each reputation, +1 to results and better naked-bonus)
19 girls bride (only 4 points each, until "train other girls at night". HUGE help to max stats)
19 girls model (some full 6 points, but most only 1 point at lvl 25 from the remaining bride-points)
11 girls escort (is a good trait, but little nonbo with work&whore, short-rest and my preference for seeing different images, so I don't like putting girls on only 1 activity)
3 girls already had Fox (if a girl had it at the start, I put 6 points in it)
4 girls already had Maid (all empty of points, useless tree)


With the above described distribution, the girls make about 150k every night, with 40k upkeep costs. So ~100k gain every day. However since most income goes into taxes, I have yet to equip the girls with weapons (18 +10 defence weapons for now) and cloth (only what I got from city events).

The game difficulty was mostly ok with my setup, I was able to get almost all off my girls to minimum wage thanks to max love. Only the "half-income-moon" was scary, where I had to pay huge taxes with half income, but I managed to make the necessairy sum on the deadline by compleating the contract and selling the girl for triple her price. (The only girl I sold on the playthrough)

Here is what I take away from this playthrough :
- Taxation was a great addition to the game, I remember swimming in gold and not knowing what to do with it as early as the 3rd/4th district. Now making money is still possible even on BK difficulty, but you can't just buy every item and upgrade at once.
- The free-girl dialogue based on the 32 personalities feels awesome, especially when you realize what actions to take/avoid for each girl to increase her love. Thanks again to the community!
- Having a level 25 girl that has maxed out 4 perk-trees sucks... She has 1 perk-point left over but can't put it anywhere, since unlocking a 5th tree costs 2 points! So I have 15 girls lvl 25 indicating "level-up possible" where I can't do anything about it. I propose reducing the unlocking cost of trees to 1 point.
- The Maid-tree is useless, even in early game other trees are better. Give it a very good final ability (+5% brothel income similar to the "magnetic"-trait) and it could be interesting, though even then wasting 5 points to get that final bonus might not be worth it.
- The final perk in Bride is useless on 99% of girls. A pity, since the tree is nice for training. Adding a little extra would be welcome. An extra flat "+10% tip for non-sex-acts if non-virgin" for example. The customer won't know as long as she behaves as though she was a virgin.
- Some golden traits are useless, which is a pity for players like me that want original girls. I feel like anything that is just "+x% to preference" or "-x to target" like the Playful, Loose or Dedicated could as well be textless. If these traits had a simple +5 to stat or +5% income on specific activity, it would already reduce the feel-bad when chatting up a girl in town and find out that you'll have to wait until she is generated anew before she becomes usefull to a BK-dificutly-brothel.
- The carpenter takes toooo long to build stuff. I'm almost at the end of the 3rd year, and the carpenter still has 10 buildings to build. I propose a very expensive building (20 of each resource at 3rd, 5th and 6th district) that says "building times are reduced by 1 day". Or alternatively a second forge that allows to build a second thing at the same, though that might be harder to code/interface.
- The ninja-hunt takes tooooooo long. Stuck at 2nd (or 3rd?) district with 8 full-leveled girls because I can only hunt 1 ninja per day... Please allow multiple hunts a day, maybe making successive hunts more tiresome (1AP -> 2AP -> 3AP) or allow hunting in each district every day. As it stands save-scumming until you find the ninja "first-try" is way faster than normal play, and that is never a good sign.
- Oh, and allowing girls to work at dynamic jobs (similar to whoring where you just allow what job she is allowed to do) would still be a great addition for not seeing the same images every night ;D Maybe if there were a job-selection-mod that implemented something similar that could be integrated to the main game...


That's today's wall of text. I want to highlight that all above-mentioned points are ideas of improvement, and that the game overall is great as it is. I just want to see it become even better. And even tough I played on BK 0.3, most if not all points also regard 0.2, so I posted it here and not in the 0.3 thread.

Happy brotheling everyone,
A&O

neronero

#70
Quote from: Alpha_and_omega on Feb 12, 2024, 10:09 AMHere is what I take away from this playthrough :
- Taxation was a great addition to the game, I remember swimming in gold and not knowing what to do with it as early as the 3rd/4th district. Now making money is still possible even on BK difficulty, but you can't just buy every item and upgrade at once.
Gameplay-wise it might be good, but flavor-wise it still doesn't sit right with me. Taxation isn't funny or sexy. But in BK's world, I feel like that's what it's going to have to be. My idea: Keep track of the insane total amount of taxes that the player contributes, and give kosmo (or a lobotomized version of kosmo, or kosmo's older brother/sister) a second arc in which he runs an organisation that runs entirely on your taxes. Let him brag about his charitable deeds, or how they made a beautiful 100ft tall gold statue of him thanks to MC's tax contribution. Just make him brag about bigger and bigger things depending on how much the player has been taxed.

edit: Perhaps Kosmo's sister should show up representing a charity in memory of Kosmo, that naively rewrites the past and glorifies him as a messianic figure. Not to gloat in a mean-spirited way, but to tell MC (one of Kosmo's best friends!) about how lovely Kosmo was and how his memory lives on through the charity's deeds. (Otherwise, if act 2 is just mean-spirited again, that'd necessitate a 3rd act where MC finally wins)
My Girl Packs: [ link ] - Trait King mod: [ link ]

Alpha_and_omega

Quote from: neronero on Feb 12, 2024, 01:30 PM
Quote from: Alpha_and_omega on Feb 12, 2024, 10:09 AMHere is what I take away from this playthrough :
- Taxation was a great addition to the game, I remember swimming in gold and not knowing what to do with it as early as the 3rd/4th district. Now making money is still possible even on BK difficulty, but you can't just buy every item and upgrade at once.
Gameplay-wise it might be good, but flavor-wise it still doesn't sit right with me. Taxation isn't funny or sexy. But in BK's world, I feel like that's what it's going to have to be. My idea: Keep track of the insane total amount of taxes that the player contributes, and give kosmo (or a lobotomized version of kosmo, or kosmo's older brother/sister) a second arc in which he runs an organisation that runs entirely on your taxes. Let him brag about his charitable deeds, or how they made a beautiful 100ft tall gold statue of him thanks to MC's tax contribution. Just make him brag about bigger and bigger things depending on how much the player has been taxed.

I am 100% with you, that something funny could be done with the tax-collectors. Also, I modified the following tax-annoncement line in my BKevents.rpy from :
            taxgirl "According to our accountants, you owe us {b}[tx] denars{/b} for last month. [text1]"
to for some more context/feedback :
            taxgirl "According to our accountants, since you made {b}[income] denars{/b} last month, you owe us {b}[tx] denars{/b}. [text1]"

It helped me to know how much I can spend each month for items and stuff. Of course, it could be formulated a bit better.

GoldoTopic starter

Quote from: Alpha_and_omega on Feb 12, 2024, 10:09 AMSome feedback from my side after a 32 x-rank-girls-run on Brothel King difficulty (lvl 25 Trader, "kind" owner, year-2-month-10, BK0.3) :

Concerning perks, I gave :
all my 32 girls slut (for work&whore and energy)
all my 32 girls courtesan (for short-rest and more bi)
28 girls player (1 gold for each reputation, +1 to results and better naked-bonus)
19 girls bride (only 4 points each, until "train other girls at night". HUGE help to max stats)
19 girls model (some full 6 points, but most only 1 point at lvl 25 from the remaining bride-points)
11 girls escort (is a good trait, but little nonbo with work&whore, short-rest and my preference for seeing different images, so I don't like putting girls on only 1 activity)
3 girls already had Fox (if a girl had it at the start, I put 6 points in it)
4 girls already had Maid (all empty of points, useless tree)


With the above described distribution, the girls make about 150k every night, with 40k upkeep costs. So ~100k gain every day. However since most income goes into taxes, I have yet to equip the girls with weapons (18 +10 defence weapons for now) and cloth (only what I got from city events).

The game difficulty was mostly ok with my setup, I was able to get almost all off my girls to minimum wage thanks to max love. Only the "half-income-moon" was scary, where I had to pay huge taxes with half income, but I managed to make the necessairy sum on the deadline by compleating the contract and selling the girl for triple her price. (The only girl I sold on the playthrough)

Here is what I take away from this playthrough :
- Taxation was a great addition to the game, I remember swimming in gold and not knowing what to do with it as early as the 3rd/4th district. Now making money is still possible even on BK difficulty, but you can't just buy every item and upgrade at once.
- The free-girl dialogue based on the 32 personalities feels awesome, especially when you realize what actions to take/avoid for each girl to increase her love. Thanks again to the community!
- Having a level 25 girl that has maxed out 4 perk-trees sucks... She has 1 perk-point left over but can't put it anywhere, since unlocking a 5th tree costs 2 points! So I have 15 girls lvl 25 indicating "level-up possible" where I can't do anything about it. I propose reducing the unlocking cost of trees to 1 point.
- The Maid-tree is useless, even in early game other trees are better. Give it a very good final ability (+5% brothel income similar to the "magnetic"-trait) and it could be interesting, though even then wasting 5 points to get that final bonus might not be worth it.
- The final perk in Bride is useless on 99% of girls. A pity, since the tree is nice for training. Adding a little extra would be welcome. An extra flat "+10% tip for non-sex-acts if non-virgin" for example. The customer won't know as long as she behaves as though she was a virgin.
- Some golden traits are useless, which is a pity for players like me that want original girls. I feel like anything that is just "+x% to preference" or "-x to target" like the Playful, Loose or Dedicated could as well be textless. If these traits had a simple +5 to stat or +5% income on specific activity, it would already reduce the feel-bad when chatting up a girl in town and find out that you'll have to wait until she is generated anew before she becomes usefull to a BK-dificutly-brothel.
- The carpenter takes toooo long to build stuff. I'm almost at the end of the 3rd year, and the carpenter still has 10 buildings to build. I propose a very expensive building (20 of each resource at 3rd, 5th and 6th district) that says "building times are reduced by 1 day". Or alternatively a second forge that allows to build a second thing at the same, though that might be harder to code/interface.
- The ninja-hunt takes tooooooo long. Stuck at 2nd (or 3rd?) district with 8 full-leveled girls because I can only hunt 1 ninja per day... Please allow multiple hunts a day, maybe making successive hunts more tiresome (1AP -> 2AP -> 3AP) or allow hunting in each district every day. As it stands save-scumming until you find the ninja "first-try" is way faster than normal play, and that is never a good sign.
- Oh, and allowing girls to work at dynamic jobs (similar to whoring where you just allow what job she is allowed to do) would still be a great addition for not seeing the same images every night ;D Maybe if there were a job-selection-mod that implemented something similar that could be integrated to the main game...


That's today's wall of text. I want to highlight that all above-mentioned points are ideas of improvement, and that the game overall is great as it is. I just want to see it become even better. And even tough I played on BK 0.3, most if not all points also regard 0.2, so I posted it here and not in the 0.3 thread.

Happy brotheling everyone,
A&O

Thanks a lot for the detailed write-up, this is very helpful to me.

I will take action on most of your points, except the 1-point tree unlock which would imbalance the perk tree too much. I will find another workaround, maybe by giving one more perk point by level 25.

In the meantime, have you considered investing in some Wyvern eggs?  ;) 
Maker of BK. Looking for the latest patch for BK 0.2? The link doesn't change, so bookmark it!

Calob

Quote from: Alpha_and_omega on Feb 12, 2024, 10:09 AM- The Maid-tree is useless, even in early game other trees are better.

...What, you hate free maintenance and lower upkeep? Those are, IMO, the first- and second-best C-rank perks, maybe after free items in Fox.

If we're talking useless trees, I think Courtesan is strictly a win-more tree. Almost all of its perks are "If you're winning, win more" and are useless if you're not already winning.